My Journey From Non Target To BB Tech IB, And To Elite PE Thereafter
(reposting given WSO moved this to the VC thread previously) It's been a few years since I finished undergrad at a low-end, East coast non target university, and I wanted to quickly share some musings from the journey. While my school wasn't even on the map for IB / finance in general, I got lucky as a freshman and met a couple seniors who broke into low end UMM / BB (Wells Fargo, etc) coverage groups and they got me on the path in time for IB recruitment. They told me if I got a solid internship, was prepared technically, and kept a 3.7+., I'd still have only about a 5% chance of getting a BB / EB offer just given the on campus recruitment dynamic I'd be missing out on coming from a small, random college. I decided to go for it anyway.
That year, I applied to lots of lower market IB / investing internships roles, and heard back from 0. Grades were doing okay, so I began to cold email relevant financial institutions at which I could do a "stepping stone" internship in time for junior year IB recruitment which was on track to be the Spring of my sophomore year based on what I heard / was told. I was unable to secure anything my freshman year summer after probably 30+ applications sent, but I did find out about a couple investment firms near my campus that hired summer interns while I was applying unsuccessfully. I figured if they needed summer intern work, they also could use fall intern support which might be easier to lock in given less competition while all the summer interns are back at school. I kept sending cold emails and managed to secure a part-time, unpaid role at a small hedge fund that I did alongside classes that semester. This opened my eyes to the power of cold emailing / networking.
When recruitment rolled around, I had prepared technically (nothing fancy), had a ~3.7 GPA, and one semi relevant (though unpaid / part-time) internship as well. I figured if I had a 5% shot at that point based on what my mentors said, I needed to enter 20 real interview processes to secure a offer, which I could probably finesse from 80 informational interviews. This was a lot, but it was the number I was set on. Long story short, I spent hours cold emailing BB / EB IB juniors ahead of recruitment (I wish RecruiterBase was around then, would've saved tons of time, and thousands of undelivered emails). After around 55 informational interviews, based on the connections I made, I figured I was on track to turn those connections into around 20 real interviews. I ended up getting an offer from a BB IB tech group (not GS/MS/Q, but easily top 10) after my first real interview. I had superday with Q coming up, but I was very burnt out at that point so I just took my offer. The networking worked so well, that I actually bombed the super day technical portion, but I knew most of the interviewers from networking calls and they said they'd push for me anyway. I was literally dapping up the FT analysts who I'd networked with when I arrived at the superday, while Stanford / Berkeley kids were awkwardly huddled in the corner, sweating bullets, and studying technicals last minute.
Flash forward to after that internship, hitting the desk as a FT analyst with the same group, I started hearing a lot about PE recruitment, and how competitive it was. I knew I wasn't as smart as most FT IB analysts I'd be competing against, but I spent like half of my first year on the desk networking, probably did around 40 informational calls with buy side juniors. Luckily this was possible for me because I was fully remote due to covid. And yes, it affected my job performance too because I ended up bottom bucket that year. However, I'd met so many PE associates, that I got a very solid off cycle PE offer after one year.
Today, I'm well into that role and it's a bit sweaty but going well. Heading into the buy side, I thought my networking was very overkill. 50+ informational interviews for a single IB offer, ~40 for a PE offer. I thought I probably could've done way less and thus had more time as a college student to have fun. However, I kept in touch with most folks I met through those calls and now a lot of them are on the buy side and I get great deal flow through them haha. I probably have the best deal flow of any junior on my team tbh because of my network. Anyway, this post is way longer / rambley then I intended, but hopefully something here was interesting / useful. I especially wanted to share my journey as it seems that aggressive yet thoughtful networking is a highly underutilized method of breaking into top firms, so maybe this will help more people adopt that strategy haha. Feel free to AMA.
Hey, thanks for this. In general how useful is networking with PE associates? Don't the headhunters run the process?
Also, how did you frame your emails to PE associates? Just wanting to learn more about the fund? I've sent a few emails as an incoming an1 and no one has really responded.
Np. I found it very useful to network with PE associates. HHs originate the interview process, but the associates run the process. So like, at the fund I'm at now, I networked with 2 associates, then saw a HH reach out with an opp at the fund and I replied given I knew ppl there. Then after first round with investor, I pinged the ones I spoke with to say like "hey hope all is well, just wanted to let you know I had a first round with so and so and looking forward to the rest of the process" and they'd reply and say like "sweet, I'll put in a good word" or sth. Initial emails to them for me were along the lines of "Hey X, I recently finished school at a non target started at [investment bank] tech group. Looking to get into growth equity, would love to learn about your role" – so I played the non target card, included that in the title, and then filtered LinkedIn to find non target / semi target PE associates.
Thank you! So essentially, if HHs dont give you an interview, networking doesnt rlly help?
Also, how did you approach HH meetings? What investment style/geography/fund size did you target? do you have any tips on approaching those meetings
No I think you can definitely get interviews from networking. It saves firms a lot of $ hiring outside of HH actually. Prob not a good idea to directly ask for an interview after one networking call, but if the call goes well you can always drop "[FIRM FAME] sounds like a sick place to work, do you have any recs on how to best position myself for if / when a spot opens up?" – with this, you aren't directly asking but you're setting them up to help you.
Think about each potential touch-point as an option; ideally, you want as many as possible. In my experience, the majority of finance recruiters at the junior level either don't know anything about substance or don't care if you approach them from that angle, and are solely in the business of looking to 'fit square pegs into square holes' as the saying goes. If you look good on paper, they may be all you need. Otherwise, you'll likely need to lean more on networking as a supplement and/or replacement.
Two anecdotal examples from my own experience trying to get to a very niche ~midlevel investing seat without a conventional resume:
(1) emailed by a recruiter who, after an intro call and then ghosting, finally responded a month later to say they weren't going to submit me for the role. However, I had the name of the firm and the name of the person making the hiring decision from an intro call with the recruiter, and I knew professionally someone more junior on the team. I also immediately started working on a new trade pitch after the intro call because I don't always trust recruiters, and like to go into a process with work product. Coincidentally, the week I found out the recruiter wasn't going to submit me, a very senior person on the team was scheduled to speak at a conference I was going to. So, I was able to reach out to the person I already knew, introduced myself to the more senior individual in person at the conference and gave them a copy of the pitch, and cold-emailed the pitch to the hiring manager. The hiring manager responded and looped me into the process.
(2) applied online to a position at a larger more corporate shop, and then looked through LinkedIn second degree connections. Got a rejection email from corporate. Simultaneously had a connection at another firm pass along my resume and a good word, which ultimately made it to the hiring decisionmaker. Got into the process, and either my contact, or the initial internal contact they passed my information to, were brought up by name by every person I interacted with in the process.
Any advice for people late to the game and looking to find a role with relevant experience? Lots of networking but not many opportunities out there, especially if you didn't follow the traditional intern path.
I think too many people late to the game waste time shooting for BB / EB right away, or name brand buy side funds even. Always best to start lower market. Maybe not as exciting, but it you have to start somewhere. Very hard / luck intensive to shortcut your way into a top firm. Rome wasn't built in a day!
wow I hope I never have to work with you tbh, I’ve never heard someone brag about “I networked but I’m actually a dummy”…will only get you so far…good luck
Isn't it the opposite actually? For VC / growth equity, the quality of deals you bring to the firm (at the senior level) is probably the most important thing? And that is determined based on who you know (network) as opposed to what you know (being smart)? Obviously those two aren't mutually exclusive, but based on what I've seen at my firm, you only get so far being smart but at some point you need a cracked network to get into the best deals. I'm sure buyout / hedge fund paths are different. Curious to hear your thoughts, as well as others.
chances are, the “weak” networking you achieve in order to land a role (1-2 coffee chats etc) isn’t exactly going to result in a super strong network/differentiated deal flow…you’re already approaching someone from a position of asking for something, so unless you have something of value to offer them early on, they will likely won’t think of you as a strong connection
Sure, maybe this weak network leads to some stronger connections or secondary relationships, but meh I wouldn’t want the core of my network to be from cold emails
Gotta respect the hustle
Is recruiter base worth it?
It you have hours to spend cross referencing linkedin searches with company email formats and don't care about bounced emails, then just do it manually. I use it heavily however, I think it's worth it.
Yes, 100%
How do you actually nail those networking calls and follow-ups to get the best conversations and outcomes possible?
I basically made a list of questions that most people ask during coffee chats, and made sure to never ask those because I figured they are sick of telling people about the coolest deals they've worked on, etc. Instead, I ask about their path to where they are today (what worked during recruitment, what separated you from the others, what would you have done differently knowing what you know now, where do you see yourself going, etc)– people love talking about themselves haha. I'd never ask for anything on the first call other than staying in touch. Then I'd follow up a couple months later saying something like "hey, our convo really resonated and I'm thinking about aiming for [whatever buyside vertical / industry they are in]" – the delay created the illusion that I thought a lot about the chat we had and benefitted from it. People also like the feeling of helping others. Then I'd ask to be in the loop if a spot opened up at their firm, if possible. This was generally the framework for calls that went well leading to a good outcome (an actual interview or them putting in a good word for me). There definitely were bad, awkward calls of course, but I realized those were inevitable.
Not sure what it is, but something about this post is extremely cringe… the cadence / tone / verbiage.
I have pretty much the exact same background as you FYI
agree…
but did you dap up those FT analysts?
Thank you for your kind words
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