Hi all, I have been going on a few interviews lately and have run across this situation quite a few times - I don't know if it is "normal" in this industry or not. But fake interviews - basically interviews that will ask you to do one or even several case studies, but once you submit them, radio silence and no feedback, no next round, no nothing. Seems to me there are a lot of people who "abuse" the interview process to get free work from candidates - is this common in the industry, and if so, how can one better identify these processes and avoid wasting time on them?
Wondering if anyone else has had similar experiences.
Thanks
Can you share the names of these firms with the community?
Lol happened to me twice.
In fact, one small fund had the stones to ask for a second case study without even providing a semblance of feedback for my first. And when I asked for their opinions, they went radio silence.
Unfortunately, this happens at more than just hedge funds.
A boutique ER firm in my hometown required all candidates to complete a modeling test, case study, and additional "assessments", regardless if you were a serious candidate or not. The total of which likely consumed days of these students lives. Regardless if they were actually using this work for themselves or not, how evil of a firm do you have to be to waste innocent kids time, give them false hope, and steal time away from them boosting their GPAs or applying elsewhere.
Likely lazy and rude but not fishing for free work.
I'd personally, nor in my experience my colleagues, every use a case study for an idea. Even if it was decent work, you'd still have to redo it all anyway. Also, there isn't a shortage of material being put out by the sell side and research platforms.
You should provide the name of these firms. Chances are that you are not the first. It’d be interesting if there were others in the community who had the same experience with the same firm.
Actually went through a similar process (it was legit) for a PE internship during school.
Most students didn't even submit their research project and it was essentially a way for the MD to see who was serious and who was not.
Granted, its obviously different for a FT analyst than a intern.
Some shops are notorious for doing this. Needless to say, they are also terrible places to work.
Anything that makes them stand out or that would allow fellow monkeys to figure which ones are like that?
Typically these shops will have very high levels of junior turnover (analysts leaving within 12 months of joining) and nobody ever gets promoted. Speaking to formers when interviewing at a shop helps to weed these places out.
Any names specifically?
We routinely do this for three purposes: 1. to check whether the candidates really have the skills they claim to have in their resumes. 2. To give them a flavour of what type of work they would be doing in the role 3. To find out how much they care about getting an offer from us.
I understand your concerns though. We only end up selecting one of the several applicants, so many of them might end up feeling resentful and think that they may have done free work for us. In reality, we tend to already know a lot about the subjects of these case studies.
If the assessment is structured to genuinely address the above points, it's unlikely that the firm is using you to do "free research", especially if you're applying for a fairly junior role. Also, this type of an assessment should only take place in final interview stages.
Some funds do this to find out what competitors are up to and fish for ideas. I've gone through it a few times, as recently as a few months ago, even as a relatively junior person (in data science).
this is common at the PM level.. or like buy-side Dir/MD level. Hedge funds love interviewing top PnL performers and try to gauge their strategies etc to "steal" with no intention of hiring them or see what else people are doing out there. Terrible.
Yup. "Informational interview" it's called.
PS. While I abhor the practice, I do it a lot myself :|
Yep, this happens more at the senior type roles, no one gives a f what a 22-30 year old thinks from a commoditized model that sellside publishes on for free 24/7. If you experience this for a junior role it's likely just a rude/badly organized HF.
I've had two firms who just fished for information in "interviews". Wasted my time, and I declined to answer 80% of the questions. Can share the names, just pm me (one large HF, one proprietary trading desk).
When they say, "we don't want to know your strategy, we just need specifics to cross-check our existing alphas... " and then they proceed to ask for details on your strategy..
I'm comfortable declining to answer most questions, but it makes for a weird interview. The best is flipping some of those intrusive questions back to them. They usually squirm.
Just had another firm waste an hour of my time.. can name the firms if you PM me. It's very obvious that they have no intention of hiring..
I also did this type of interview at least two different firms a few years ago. Half the people were asking for details on alpha signals and other models I worked on. If a small shop keeps posting jobs all the time that never seem to close out and is interviewing people on a regular basis, it's a sign that they are up to this.
its been pretty common in the last month. Nobody is hiring at the moment. I think the funds that have survived are looking at this opportunistically and hire cheaply those that have been let go due to blow ups. Was in the process but sounded out the interviewer and it seems they are in 'interviewing mode' with a vague promise to hire in the future.
p72?
How can you tell when this is happening at the multimanagers?
Pretty normal, esp on the hedgie side. Sometimes, there was no job opening at that place in the first place.
Tell them to fuck off aka politely refuse. I did this and got an offer at a place like this when I was recruiting awhile ago. They’ll respect you for respecting yourself.
for the love of god don’t work somewhere like this. Do you want to work for someone like this? If you get an offer, use it to leverage it for somewhere else.
This practice unfortunately happens way too often.
If a fund is asking for a case study up front with barely a first round interview, there’s a problem and they want free ideas. If you’re deep in the process with a fund and they ask for a case study, that should be acceptable.
One01 capital in California is doing this
Can confirm One01 Capital is doing this, did they interview you?
Nope, sent a detailed stock pitch over - they viewed it, but got no response yet got traction at other large SM's. Maybe they didn't like it? Inclined to think they just ripped the idea and ghosted. Did they interview you?
Looks like One01 shut down, so karma is a B
.... keep the DMs coming
Honestly, we should all compile a list and publish it, because this seems really common lol.
Prentice Capital
Maplelane
Multimanagers
Madison Avenue Partners
I am surprised to hear this, didn't think Eli would do that
Happened all the time. I was total fine with this back then. Think about it this way, you should appreciate people giving you the opportunity to show your work on a real live situation, rather than judging you based on what school / firm are you.
Keep them coming
You don't really know for sure if those hedge funds are trying to take advantage of you, or if they are just really busy. Now it certainly is possible that they are really doing fake interviews, but they could also just be busy too and not have time to respond to all of the candidates and their case studies. The best thing to do is literally just call the person who interviewed you back and see where you stand as a job candidate with them. This is really the best way so you can get better feedback on what is going on.
Happens all the time. Pretty much industry standard.
Posted 5 years ago. OP probably already learnt it by now.
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